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Intimate Covenant Podcast
Intimate Covenant Podcast
More PDA? -- Retreat Q&A pt 2 [169]
In this episode, Matt & Jenn share another set of clips from the Q&A session at our recent Annual Marriage Retreat. We cover the following questions:
- What ways can I warm my spouse up to more public displays of affection?
- Discuss navigating, in different seasons, sexual pursuer/responder roles switching. It's not a smooth transition and can be confusing.
- What if you are the sexual AND the emotional persuer??
- I love giving my wife oral pleasure. She never reciprocates yet enjoys receiving. How do I keep from feeling resentful & help her to grow her desire for this?
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Intimate Covenant | Matt & Jenn Schmidt
Hey, jen want to talk about PDA.
Speaker 2:Keep your hands to yourself buddy Great.
Speaker 1:Today on the podcast, we're sharing part two of our live Q&A segment from this year's marriage retreat, including our answer to the following question how can I warm my spouse up to more public displays of affection? Let's do it, Welcome friends, Welcome. We're Matt and Jen, and this is the Intimate Covenant podcast where we believe the Bible and great married sex both belong on the kitchen table. That's right. We're talking about godly marriage with hot sex and emotionally fulfilling oneness, just like God intended. We're so glad you're joining us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. If you'd like more information about us, you can visit our website at intimatecovenantcom, and we would always love to hear from you. Feel free to email us any of your questions. Comments concerns compliments on Matt's beard if you've seen him live.
Speaker 1:Even rude remarks.
Speaker 2:You know, he likes his beard.
Speaker 1:All feedback is welcome.
Speaker 2:Feedback welcome at podcast at intimatecovenantcom.
Speaker 1:So glad you're with us. We wanted to share in this episode part two. We don't do a lot of part twos, but here's a part two Our Q&A session at this past. Last year's retreat sorry this year's retreat. Something we did, something. We did a retreat at some point. It was a retreat.
Speaker 2:It has been a month since the retreat. If you know us, if you've at all been to the retreat, you know that we are big fans of taking a month off after the retreat. Yes, we call it our recuperation time. It is our retreat.
Speaker 1:Well, From the retreat.
Speaker 2:It is our retreat from the retreat and within that month we always plan a getaway for just us. This year's getaway got delayed just a little bit, but we are leaving this week to head to Sedona, Arizona. We cannot wait. We have heard hundreds of y'all tell us that we need to go to Sedona for a getaway, so we are headed out there. We are going to do a lot of hiking and a lot of relaxation in a cabin.
Speaker 1:Yes, looking forward to that very much, absolutely. But before we get there, we've got to get this episode recorded.
Speaker 2:We do have to get an episode out. Hence the reason we are sitting in front of microphones here.
Speaker 1:We are here we are, but we had such a great Q&A session from this past retreat. We wanted to share most not all, but most of the remaining questions from that session.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a great audience. We really loved the questions that we got. We loved the audio recording. Again, shout out to our good friend, jacob Mock, who made us sound exceptionally well this year at the retreat and it's just fun. It's fun for us to go back and listen to it and remember all the fun we had at the retreat. It's always such a full weekend that I like to listen back and hear the laughter and just hear the enjoyment that we all were feeling in that moment and remember that it was just a great weekend and we're going to do it again next year. We are in negotiations as we speak, so be looking for more information soon about next year's retreat.
Speaker 1:And mark on your calendar February 14th. That is when registration will open again, and we'll plan to do this next year. But a lot of the retreat was centered on the pursuer-responder dynamic. We've talked about that, of course, in the past episodes and even past retreats and other events. It's just this framework that we have sort of come up with to help explain and just give a well a framework really to have conversations about how conflict happens in relationships and how that dynamic works. This year's theme overall was desire, and so we talked a lot about desire, whether that's desire for emotional connection, desire for spiritual and especially for sexual connection, how to cultivate that, how to grow that. And so I say all that because a couple of the questions that are in this Q&A session are about that pursuer-responder dynamic. So the questions that we are going to cover include specifically about the pursuer-responder dynamic what happens or how do you navigate when that pursuer-responder dynamic switches, if you become a sexual responder when you used to be a pursuer or vice versa, how do you navigate that in a relationship?
Speaker 2:And also, what if both couples are both partners and are no, I'm saying this wrong. What if one is both the sexual and emotional pursuer? So how do you navigate that if you're filling both roles of being a pursuer Right or responder for that matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are some of the things that we're gonna answer briefly in this section, as well as, as you heard, in the open. How can I warm my spouse up to more public displays of affection?
Speaker 2:Well, and within that, just answering the broader question of how do I get my spouse to do X, Y, Z?
Speaker 1:Yeah, whatever it might be. And then, finally, we had a question on what do I do or how do I deal with some of the resentment that comes from the fact that a wife won't reciprocate oral sex? So also an interesting question and hopefully you'll get something from our responses and, as always, we would challenge you to think about how you would answer these questions. Yeah, if we missed something, if you feel like there's some part of this that we could have answered or should have answered differently, we would love to hear from you Again. You can contact us podcast at IntimateCovenantcom. With that we'll get to the questions. Hope you enjoy our answers and we'll see you on the flip side.
Speaker 1:This is probably a common theme. If you read through all the questions, probably 30 to 50% of them are about what can I do to get my spouse to do XYZ? We could probably sum up the answer to most of those questions by saying you can't. We could probably sum up the answer to most of those questions by saying you can't. You can't make your spouse do anything, and I don't have a magic wand to make my spouse do what I would like, and I know all the tricks.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you sure do Yep you know what I want, honey.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, there's your answer right there. I guess I would. All of this starts, though, with a conversation, right? And if you haven't had the conversation and all you are sensing is that your spouse is rejecting your your uh approaches for affection in public, um, I don't know how to help you with that. You've got to have a conversation about it first. But that conversation should start with not why are you like this? The question should start by saying it would be really meaningful to me if we did X, y, z. This is what it would mean to me. This is how it would make me feel. This is how you can support me or build me up. I would feel this thing about you if we did more of this.
Speaker 2:And just because you share, that doesn't mean they're going to immediately start doing it, but they're definitely more inclined if they are hearing your heart. So anytime we get this kind of question how can I make my spouse do? The answer is always let them hear your heart, but also be in a place of contentment and gratitude. So be in a place of contentment and gratitude, Grateful for what you do have. So maybe it's first of all define public displays of affection, Because again, the Isle of Walmart, there's certain things that's not going to happen. Period, right? Any of us? Please tell me no, but so it's.
Speaker 2:What do you mean by public displays of affection? What does hand-holding or kissing in public, or walking with each other's you know, hands on each other's backs, whatever it is, be specific. Tell your spouse what it means to them, but then listen to their heart, Because what if that same thing that you're asking for is for is a place that a previous wound maybe occurred for your spouse, for your beloved? What if that same act that you're asking for means something else to them? So be willing to listen to each other and understand the motivating factor.
Speaker 2:Why is it your spouse isn't as inclined and, frankly, a lot of this just goes to. We display our affection differently. Right, the common, what's it called the love languages? We do and don't like the idea of love languages, but I get that there's some merit. Some people are more drawn to physical touch. That is a love language for them. So I would guess that this person that is, that physical touch, may be low down on the radar for your spouse. So the goal then is okay, but how do we share that with one another?
Speaker 1:And I would add to that let's just assume, just for the sake of argument, pursuers, that you have pursued poorly in the past. I know that's not probably not true for most of you, but let's just assume when, if you have a history of pursuing poorly with pressure, your responder may not know that when you reach out to hold their hand that you're not actually asking for more. They may realize or they may not know that when you lean over to give them a kiss in public, that you're not trying to make out and feel them up right there in the aisle of Walmart. Just step back, be empathetic and be clear about what your intentions are and let your spouse know look, okay, I did this poorly in the past.
Speaker 1:When I lean down for a kiss, I'm not trying to make out with you right here. I just want to show you affection and sometimes that's the only conversation that will be needed. Your your responder may say oh good, Now I don't feel like I have to fight you off all the time. I know that we have some boundaries and your responder can say this is what I'm okay with in public. This is what I'm okay with in front of the kids, this is what I'm okay with in other circumstances and when you guys know where the boundaries are, then you don't have to feel this pressure of what is he actually asking for in this moment, or?
Speaker 2:she? What your responder is afraid of is not being enough. So assure them that they are enough. And again, you're inviting, not obligating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, most responders don't feel good about rejecting. They don't want to reject you. So instead of getting halfway through and then having to put on the brakes, it's just easier for them to put on the brakes before it gets out of hand. So if, but if you know where the lines are, you know where the boundaries are, and this is true in the bedroom as well. If you know where the boundaries are, then everybody feels safe. And what does a responder need? Safety, safety, discuss navigating in different seasons, sexual pursuer and responder roles switching it's not a smooth transition and can be confusing. I feel this we do. Yes, so I think we made it clear, since the question is being asked this way. I think we made it clear.
Speaker 1:Just because you're a sexual pursuer today doesn't necessarily mean that you always will be, and sometimes the degree to which you are a pursuer or responder will change. You might still be a pursuer, but maybe you guys end up a little closer together than really far apart. And that's true emotionally as well. I've seen that transition even in my own life and it probably says something about my age, just like the gray hair in my beard says something about my age. But listen, I mean men. Frankly, you lose testosterone every day and there is not much you can do about that. So testosterone is the primary driver, especially in men, for spontaneous desire. So you're going to lose some of that. That's just inevitable.
Speaker 2:Well, and women, if you are more by nature, a sexual responder, you will look very different as a responder when there are little people all over you than when you're in your mid-40s and you're on the tail end. And that's my story. I mean, I will always be a responder, but I'm a very different responder now because, frankly, I have more time, I have more energy and I've learned how to better cultivate desire within my own self, and so this will look differently. Most women, your sexual desire will rise throughout your life, especially your forties, and I don't think it's necessarily a coincidence that that's actually the time when your husbands will start dropping. Well, there comes some, maybe meeting in the middle or even switching. That looks different, and if it's patterns that you're not used to, then that can be confusing.
Speaker 1:It can definitely be confusing if you're not talking about it. It can definitely be confusing if you're not talking about it. If you, as a responder, start noticing that your pursuer is not pursuing with the same frequency or the same vibrancy or the same vigor as before and you how are? A responder is likely to take that as rejection, like, oh well, maybe he just doesn't like me anymore. He doesn't like me as much. Maybe it's because I look older or I've gained some weight or because something else is wrong in our relationship. If you just notice it and hold that to yourself, then you're just going to make up all kinds of crazy stories. If you notice something is off, then it's up to you to bring it up. It may just be you know what. My sex life is amazing and I don't need it every day. I'm happy and content to have these few special moments together and I'm content with that.
Speaker 2:Sometimes the result of better sex, more connected sex, is longer amounts of time that go by in between, because you're getting the point of it in a much deeper, richer, fuller way. So sometimes that may mean that your pursuer is in a better place of contentment.
Speaker 1:If they're filled up with contentment, maybe they don't feel the scarcity of needing to pursue it as much and again. So there's lots of reasons why it can happen. But I would say, if you notice a change in the pattern, then you need to bring it up Because, yes, it could be a signal that something is actually wrong. Physically, like if you have something wrong with you. You may just simply not feel desire as much, and that's something that maybe would be an alarm bell for health problems. But it also may signal a problem in the relationship. And if that's the case, stop ignoring it. Don't just think, oh, thank goodness he's not asking tonight. It actually might be a reason that you need to bring it up and talk about it.
Speaker 1:What if you are the sexual and the emotional pursuer? That happens and it may always have been the case. It may be something that has changed in your relationship and how you connect or don't connect. I will say that that is not a common circumstance and I'll also say that in some cases I'm not saying every case, but in some cases that can suggest that one of you has checked out. So that kind of circumstance requires a pulse check first. Now I'm not saying that, if that is your situation, that means you're in crisis and doesn't mean you're going to be divorced next week, but it does mean that it at least requires a pulse check, and maybe this is something that goes all the way back to when you first met.
Speaker 1:Was one of you just always pursuing the other?
Speaker 1:Was there ever a time when you pursued the other or not?
Speaker 1:What was it that brought you together? Generally speaking, both of you will have been involved in some way in making those connections, but sometimes one of you is just more emotionally fulfilled, more emotionally connected, and one of you is more sexually connected at the same time, and again, what that means, though, is if you're the pursuer, emotionally and sexually, you better be a great pursuer, and you've got to really be mindful about how you are pursuing, and the same principles apply You've got to do it in a way that creates safety, and in a way that allows for you to be open to, or allows them to be open to, response. Again, on the flip side, if you are the responder in all in these major places in your relationship, you better be a good responder, because if you are not responding to the emotional and sexual connections and the bids that your spouse is making and you're missing lots of bids because you're not paying attention and you're not motivated by emotional or sexual connection. You have work to do. You have to be on your game, constantly listening for bids.
Speaker 2:Well and again, both pursuers and responders have to recognize that's an active role. Neither of you gets to be passive. And so if you are in a place in your marriage right now where you are the responder, emotionally and sexually, I would challenge you to consider why is that? And what am I doing to show my spouse, show my pursuer, that I acknowledge their pursuit, that I see them, because they're going to need more reassurance because they are in that role of constant pursuit. And so you, as a responder, again, you better be a really good responder. You better be working to make sure that that pursuer knows that they are seen and valued, because they're risking rejection every single moment, emotionally and sexually.
Speaker 1:This question is I love giving my wife oral pleasure. She never reciprocates, yet enjoys receiving. How do I keep from feeling resentful and help her to grow her circle for this? I think the key word in this question, or the key idea in this question, is how do I keep from feeling resentful? Because it could be whatever it is. It could be just kissing or it could be whatever that you feel like you, as a pursuer, are pouring into this part of your relationship and yet you're not getting back what you think you ought to get back and that could be even emotionally right. You could feel like you are pouring into the emotional side of your relationship and yet your spouse just they enjoy what they get from it, your spouse enjoys it, but they're not putting in the same kind of effort. They're not even willing to try something that means so much to you and I don't. Unfortunately, I'm sorry I don't have an easy solution for this. There is no easy solution for this. There are just, in a lot of cases, some places in your relationship where you are just simply going to be giving more than your spouse, where you are just simply going to be giving more than your spouse.
Speaker 1:But I also think that it's important to acknowledge all of the places where they are serving you. That's always a good place to start is gratitude. Have you heard that before? Gratitude is always the place to start. Gratitude is the antidote to resentment, but it doesn't make the rejection hurt less in a lot of cases. But again, does every question that we answer eventually come down to? You have to have a conversation about this. Why do you think we've been making you talk all week, all weekend? It comes down to a conversation. You need to know where is your spouse's heart.
Speaker 2:What does it mean to her? What is it that isn't comfortable for her when you say that she never reciprocates? Why?
Speaker 1:And if you ask her why, what do you?
Speaker 2:think her answer is going to be, I don't know or no. We are not having this conversation.
Speaker 1:But guess what? That's not a conversation.
Speaker 2:And so the more you can share your heart about what it means to you, the more she might feel safe to share her heart about what it may or may not mean to her. Again, if you have in any way shape or form pressured at some point, then guess what she has attached to that act A lot of sense of resentment herself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and maybe it's because she doesn't feel like she's going to do it well, or she's not going to do it right, or there is some shame attached to it, like this is maybe associated with something quote, dirty or something that only those kinds of people would do. I don't know where the barrier is and I have no way to predict what that might be in this particular circumstance, but that's what you both are going to have to explore because, again, not every couple is fighting about oral sex. So why is it that this is the barrier and what are the barriers to whatever this might be? And if that's your barrier, you ought not to want to have a barrier between you. Now, eventually, this conversation still might end up with no, I just can't do it. That's okay. That's an okay response, because there's sometimes are just some things that, because of the baggage that I'm carrying, I'm not going to be able to do that. That is a sore spot that I cannot get past.
Speaker 1:But it's also up to me, as the one who has the wound, to make sure that my spouse knows where the wound is, what it's there, how did it get there, how can we avoid the wound and is there a way to provide the same degree of eroticism or pleasure or connection in some other way? Is there a detour around this wound that still creates the same benefit to the relationship? I'm not going to be able to tell you what that is. That is a. That is not a conversation. That's a lot of conversations. That's a lot of vulnerability on both your parts.
Speaker 1:Why is this so desirable? Why is this the thing that I am, as a pursuer, am wanting? What does it mean to me and what does it mean to my responder? Who is opposed and why? And can we dig through those things to find out what are the motivating factors in my pursuit and in my rejection? And is there a detour? I promise you, if you go your whole life without ever receiving oral sex, you could still have a great sex life. So there are other ways to find the same benefits in your relationship, but you know, oral sex might be great, so think about that.
Speaker 2:All right. Hopefully you gained some insight there in listening to the answers that we gave and again, if you have a different take, if you would answer those questions differently, we would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:We have no illusions that you agree with all of our responses, so we would love to hear some of that feedback.
Speaker 2:We love the conversation.
Speaker 1:You can contact us by emailing podcast at intimatecovenantcom or to submit anonymous feedback and questions. Go to intimatecovenantcom slash podcast and click on the button Contact the podcast. Who would have guessed? That's how you can submit an anonymous submission form.
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